June 2008: Ernest Hemingway: A Farewell To Arms

[saliotthomas]

I agree with SFG75 about that and Peder i don't see it as a lack of gorish details but more of feelings from the narrator.Once again i am shoked with his very detache ways,he is not scarred(just few oh my god),he does not describe any of his reaction.He is injured,see a camarade die in his arms but just get on with it as if he was a veteran?? Maybe the injury is numbing,but at least the sight of a dead man with whom he was sharing lunch should stir in him some kind of emotion.
I come back to the comparaison with The Stranger of Camus,the guy just doesn't feel anything.

 

[Peder]

Thomas, That's certainly a valid comment on his writing! Sounds like Camus' Stranger might make a very interesting BOTM selection, or story for side discussion.

 

[Robert]

Sorry to be joining in so late. I started to read this wonderful selection on Sunday and soon realized that I was tired and had to put it aside for a day.

The first thing I noticed is that everything is tainted by the war. It starts in the first chapter where even the leaves of the trees are solied by the passing soldiers. The snow, which always seems to hide filth and make things beautiful can't even cover the ugly destruction of what was once a beautiful forest. When Catherine and our narrator are together in the hospital room, they can smell the coffee of the soldiers on the roof of the next building.

I know our characters seem not to be bothered the war, but I wonder if this is a case where actions speak louder then words. I think Rinaldi's desire to marry Catherine and the lightening fast romance between Catherine and Frederic henry are accelerated by the fear caused by war and the need to satisfy certain psychological needs and life goals.

Pedar, I like your comments about the battle. Much of war is monotony and destruction often comes quickly and without warning. Hemingway also shows some of the other ugly business of the war in other ways. The incident where one in ten soldiers are put to death and families lose their civil rights and their protection under the laws. But I really don't think the book is about the battles. We have our narrator and his comrades who understand that taking a village or mountain does not end the war and that there are always peopel in power that seem willing to promote a war; so they can see no end to it. We have Frederick Henry who has alreay avoided the monotony of the winder months by taking trip through Italy. he finds temporary relief fromthe war in his romance with Catherine, and again puts the war behind him when he's in the hospital. I think the Hemingway wrote teh battle the way he did because A Farewell to Arms is less about battle then Henry's tempory escapes from it.

More later.

 

[Peder]

Robert, I think you have pointed toward the central issue in the book, namely Henry's attitude toward the war and how it gradually evolves. That issue remains mostly in the background, behind the love interest and the incidents of his military life, and he doesn't say much about it. But here and there it pokes through, first in terms of the thoughts that he occasionally expresses, but then finally in his own irrevocable actions. Looming over everything of course is the title of the book.

 

[SFG75]

I really enjoyed chapter 11. The priest's conversation with Frederic was very touching. His character reminded me a lot of the humility of Ivan Karmazov, the comparison I just couldn't shake from my mind there-an unsuspecting good portion of the book where you least expect it. The attitude about war has been quite mum up to this point and in this section, you really gather that the priest and Frederic are feeling a bit hesitant regarding it. There was a conversation about it being waged for the benefit of the arms manufacturers. That reflects the fact that it was a common perception after the war that it was fought in part, due to that reason. I remember that there was a document called the "White Report" which favored that thesis.

Chapter 14 continues the whole puppy-love bit between Frederic and Catherine. I would have to say that chapter 15 was the most humorous of the five chapters. I loved the interaction between Frederic and the doctor regarding which inept doctor would be operating on him.

"He's a first captain, isn't he?"
"Yes, but he is an excellent sugeon."
"I don't want my leg fooled with by a first captain. If he was any good he would be made a major. I know what a first captain is doctor."

 

[Peder]

There was a conversation about it being waged for the benefit of the arms manufacturers. That reflects the fact that it was a common perception after the war that it was fought in part, due to that reason. I remember that there was a document called the "White Report" which favored that thesis.

Yes, Scott now that you mention it! I also remember hearing that the arms manufacturers came out of WW I with a bad reputation -- made worse by the fact that the individual manufacturers would sell weapons to both sides in a conflict, thereby escalating and prolonging both the conflict and their profits. Having said that, I now think back that those must have been "the simple days," when evil could be so neatly pin-pointed. Dunno what's happened.

 

[SeoulMan]

I understand where some of you are coming from and those are valid points, but I'm still having trouble connecting with this book, its characters, and the war. I can appreciate the intellectual aspect of a book, but if I can't connect to it emotionally, I'm left wanting.

For example, some of you make valid points about how these characters may be shell-shocked and that's why they talk and behave like they do. (I made a comment above about how stunted the dialogue is.) Perhaps that's what Hemingway is trying to depict. But I've read other Hemingway before and he writes dialogue exactly like this. This style cuts across all his books. I don't mean this as a slam against Hemingway because I remember liking "The Old Man and the Sea" and "The Sun Also Rises," along with his short stories. But this book...I can't seem to embrace it.

I'm on Ch. 26.

 

[Peder]

The way I see it, Chapter 26 may be the point at which the philosophizing ends and the action finally begins. It is the beginning of the end, with Lt. Henry moving forward to center stage and beginning to show what he is all about.

 

[saliotthomas]

Peder your optisme and encouragement deserves every respect,just for that i shall try my best to like it and keep my mind open.Cheers to Peder....

 

[Libra]

I am enjoying everybody's opinions on this book. I think coming from The First Circle being so deep, I have found Farewell To Arms very enjoyable. Simple reading, egaging in the explanations of the scenery, and how maybe a love affair, romance was more pure back then.

Also, a very funny book outside the thoughts of war.

 

[Peder]

Peder your optisme and encouragement deserves every respect,just for that i shall try my best to like it and keep my mind open.Cheers to Peder....

/chuckling/
Well, many thanks, but truth to tell, Hemingway's style drove me totally up a wall when I started reading the first few pages. The broken syntax was more than I could stand. And then the simple (simple-minded?) dialogue with Catherine was almost too much to bear. I thought I would never get over those negative reactions, but soon enough I began to see some really nice writing appearing in his run-on sentences, and Catherine didn't grate on my nerves so much anymore. And it was still slow for a while, even though. But the book did finally begin to move around Chapter 26.
I think the turning point in the story is Lt. Henry climbing on the train and going back to the front, to end Book 2 and begin Book 3, Chapter 25.
So, I'm only speaking from my own reactions, but anyone who has persevered as far as Chapter 26 definitely deserves to finish to reap the reward. The remainder of the book definitely tells a story and wraps things up.

 

[SeoulMan]

The way I see it, Chapter 26 may be the point at which the philosophizing ends and the action finally begins. It is the beginning of the end, with Lt. Henry moving forward to center stage and beginning to show what he is all about.

You're right. I just finished Ch. 28. Sometime around Ch. 26, it felt like I was reading a totally different book. The war imagery is much more "modern" and the dialogue isn't as irritating.

 

[Peder]

Phew! I'm so glad to hear it, SeoulMan.

 

[SFG75]

Yes, Scott now that you mention it! I also remember hearing that the arms manufacturers came out of WW I with a bad reputation -- made worse by the fact that the individual manufacturers would sell weapons to both sides in a conflict, thereby escalating and prolonging both the conflict and their profits. Having said that, I now think back that those must have been "the simple days," when evil could be so neatly pin-pointed. Dunno what's happened.

O.K., I had to do some more digging. It turns out that it wasn't known as the White paper or report, but instead, it was the Nye report. Anyone who is interested can also find a good list of WWI primary documents here.

 

[Peder]

Scott! What an amazing treasure trove of documents you have found! And that Nye Report is not pulling any punches at all as far as I can tell. Wow! There's a whole two lifetimes of reading right there that you have unearthed!

 

[arnuld]

I think when we mention the book of the month, we must also mention that whther it is Fiction or Non-Fiction. Just a thought

 

[Peder]

I think when we mention the book of the month, we must also mention that whther it is Fiction or Non-Fiction. Just a thought

Arnuld, A Farewell to Arms is classed as Fiction, but is also based on events from Hemingway's own life that can be read here.
Service as an ambulance driver during WW I, a wound to his knee, the Silver Star, and his romance with a nurse are apparently fictionalized autobiography. The same article also contains an interesting description of his writing style that many of us have noticed (with irritation).

 

[SFG75]

Read chapters 16-20 last night. I would have to say that I enjoyed them as they depicted Catherine and Frederic's growing relationship, amidst a peaceful time away from the front lines. The description of the horse race, their dining experiences and wine tasting, as well as other "going out" experiences was a good uplifting piece for Hemingway to include. It was dare I say, a bit touching. I got a kick out of Ettore's character, who relished in earning stripes and medals. Catherine's assessment of him was dead on, though I don't think Frederic liked to admit it. A classic jingoist if there was one.

Peder:

Robert, I think you have pointed toward the central issue in the book, namely Henry's attitude toward the war and how it gradually evolves.

You are quite a bit ahead of me, I'm wagering that Catherine plays a role in this revelation of sorts. Given her advice to Frederic about Ettore, I'll make that hunch.

 

[Peder]

I'll not tell! So no more hints from me, young man.
But yes, it was about then that I felt I was reading a romance more than a war story.

 

[SFG75]

Couldn't help but think about writing style as it has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. The "simplicity" of Hemingway can be considered an American trait. Alexis DeTocqueville made note of it in his masterpiece writing, Democracy in America.

I have frequently noticed that the Americans, who generally treat of business in clear, plain language, devoid of all ornament and so extremely simple as to be often coarse, are apt to become inflated as soon as they attempt a more poetical diction.

In democratic communities, each citizen is habitually engaged in the contemplation of a very puny object: namely, himself. If he ever raises his looks higher, he perceives only the immense form of society at large or the still more imposing aspect of mankind. His ideas are all either extremely minute and clear or extremely general and vague; what lies between is a void.

This last section of DeTocqueville reminds me a lot of Hemingway in this work. He is obviously basing Frederic's experiences after his own as an ambulance driver. This is somewhat of an egocentric book and reflects DeTocqueville's idea that "democratic" writers come from that vantage point.

The "simplicity" thesis is an interesting argument-I also see it in the writings of Willa Cather, Mari Sandoz, not to mention Henry Adams. I really enjoy works mostly be Eastern European or Russian writers-Dostoyevsky, Kafka, and Turgenev namely. I wouldn't label them "complex" writers as I would say that they use inflated descriptors in their writing style.