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What did Thumper's Daddy say?

The both of you have a point.

Wabbit is right, in my opinion, about the group of people who hide behind an air of intellectualism, and who, consciously or not, belittle other people for not being able to use expensive words as they are. That said, that entire trend has abated after it peaked in disaster about a month ago. We've all felt the results of that - personal attacks flying left and right; hell, Darren was even forced to post the 'State of Play'-statement.

Moto is right about the fact that we have to police ourselves. If someone is being an ass towards a noob, try to get in that thread and (publicly, for all I care) tell the ass to, well, stop being an ass. Alternatively, as Jenn stated, get in conact with the noob, through PM, and tell them we aren't all of us asses. A good example is this thread. I made a silly remark towards a noob, which could have been regarded as offensive, and as soon as I realised that, I sent him/her a PM, apologising. Besides that, two people (Kook and Jenn) came out and slapped me on the wrist, which is something I appreciated.

Self-policing works. Sometimes.

Cheers
 
does this mean the Martin, Wabbit, and Motokid are all clinkin' glasses of cold beverages of choice and laughing at, and with ourselves ...?????
 
Always, my friend. Always.

I think you just described the very definition of my life. Hey, what can I say, I'm a simple guy.

Cheers
 
Let me get this straight.

Wabbit says there are regular posters here who are snippy and rude. He provides no examples. Yet, when another poster finds Wabbit himself has been snippy and rude, Wabbit gets upset and says someone is digging dirt on him. What is this about? Who exactly is snippy and rude to new posters? What specifically are you referring to?

And for Martin to talk about self-policing is really rich. Characterizing what happened a month ago as a 'personal attack' is untrue and unfair. If he had done a little self-policing there would not have been a problem. As I recall, his own snippy and rude remarks set off that particular episode, which then focused on his own lack of self-policing.

Can someone here please say what you mean? In my experience Wabbit is one of the snippiest and rudest posters, one of the first to take personal offense when someone doesn't agree with his opinion, and then turn it into a personal argument. This happens repeatedly. And his first line of defense is to then characterize his rudeness as a joke.

I shouldn't have to apologize on a book forum for having a good vocabulary or for expressing my opinions about what I've read, even if they don't conform to yours. What part of this offends you?
 
Motokid said:
The answer is police ourselves.
Protect the newb, and stick up for those who need help.
Step in when you see something you don't like, and call it as you see it.
Click to expand...
This is what I was getting at - just raising awareness and encouraging people to step in when you see something that could be taken the wrong way. I said something offensive to someone once, and didn't even realise it could be taken in another way. Luckily the person I offended was mature enough (and forum savvy enough) to discuss the issue over PM.
 
Considering that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this, I will quietly (well, perhaps not so quietly) extricate myself from this thread.

A pity you feel the constant need to make this personal, Novella - both Wabbit and myself never named a name; we spoke in a general sense.

Au revoir.

Cheers
 
I'm just wondering what the point of Wabbit's "two scents" post is and what the point of your reference to the events of a month ago? If it is to promote harmony on the board, you both have a funny way of going about it. A little self-examination before casting aspersions, please?
 
Geez, I hate doing the mother thing, but here it is.

Not everyone is going to get along. Not everyone is going to even like each other. That's life. We all have differing levels of tolerance for perceived or actual rude behaviour. It's nice to think we can all agree to a certain code of conduct - as in "be nice to each other". The reality is that even such a simple statement means different things to people. Some people like things up front and brutally honest and some people like it sugar-coated and some just enjoy knock-down drag 'em out, no-holds-barred fights.

And there will never, repeat never, going to be consensus on anything regarding the personalities of this forum (he's an ass - no he's not, he's just funny; what an arrogant prick - no he's just being intellectual).

In such a large community, you've all got choices to make regarding members or posts you find objectionable. Some of which are: Contribute to the discussion and debate in a constructive way; ignore those you don't like/can't get along with; talk it out and get over it (which Moto seems to be genius at); or leave discussions you don't like.

For my money, self-policing is the best thing we've got. Doesn't always work, but we gotta start somewhere. Beyond that, there are pm's to each other, the mods and - what should be a last resort - intervention by mods.

ell
 
novella said:
Let me get this straight.

Wabbit says there are regular posters here who are snippy and rude. He provides no examples. Yet, when another poster finds Wabbit himself has been snippy and rude, Wabbit gets upset and says someone is digging dirt on him. What is this about? Who exactly is snippy and rude to new posters? What specifically are you referring to?

And for Martin to talk about self-policing is really rich. Characterizing what happened a month ago as a 'personal attack' is untrue and unfair. If he had done a little self-policing there would not have been a problem. As I recall, his own snippy and rude remarks set off that particular episode, which then focused on his own lack of self-policing.

Can someone here please say what you mean? In my experience Wabbit is one of the snippiest and rudest posters, one of the first to take personal offense when someone doesn't agree with his opinion, and then turn it into a personal argument. This happens repeatedly. And his first line of defense is to then characterize his rudeness as a joke.

I shouldn't have to apologize on a book forum for having a good vocabulary or for expressing my opinions about what I've read, even if they don't conform to yours. What part of this offends you?
Click to expand...

Firstly, I didn't "get upset" as you put it.

Secondly, yeah, I have been rude on occasion. I think I already made my point on this didn't I?

EVERYBODY on the entire PLANET has been rude at some point in their lives. We all have bad days, right? I'm not talking about a few isolated incidents. What I AM talking about is there are a certain few people that are arrogant, rude, snippy, and sarcastic not only to newbies but in general most of the time. These are not isolated incidents but general behaviour.

Lastly, you want me to name names? As a moderator I am unable to do that as you full well know. If I do, ill simply get accused of being biased and "having it in" for certain people on this board which although completely untrue is what I will get accused of in an instant. Besides, I think those certain people know exactly who they are, right?

As a moderator I am allowed to take a position on the behaviour on this board as it's my job here to help keep the board a friendly and fun environment for all. So, nuff said :)

As Kook so rightly said and so very well... we are just trying to raise awareness. Maybe in the future there can be a little less belitterling on the boards of others reading choices, life styles, spelling, grammar or where they choose to post. Let's all just get along!

GROUP HUG :)
 
Shut up, you guys. :D

Hey Wabbit, as a moderator you are unable to name names. Well, since you said last month that sometimes you post as a moderator and sometimes you post as a member, then I hope you can post these names "as a member" and make us all happy. The suspense is killing me.

Thanks :)
 
Stewart said:
Shut up, you guys. :D

Hey Wabbit, as a moderator you are unable to name names. Well, since you said last month that sometimes you post as a moderator and sometimes you post as a member, then I hope you can post these names "as a member" and make us all happy. The suspense is killing me.

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

Ah well, there has been a change. As with everything there needs to be constant examination and re-evaluation of ourselves and our environments. So my position has changed. I am moderator at all times and so will not be naming any names. Anyway, the names don't need to be mentioned. It's not important. Only the message that we ALL of us could be a little nicer to each other :)
 
I'm doing this for you, Motokid

okay, as a newer member, and as a person with common sense, I am critical of other ppl's comments. I know that anyone on the net is just gonna say whatever is on their mind at the time. Ppl have different moods all of the time, and it is easily reflected through the plain type of a computer. Personally, if I see a person who seems to be constantly negative, then the legitimacy of their comments becomes lessened. First impressions have shaped the way that I view the members on this forum, and if they seem to be out just to point out the negative aspects of things, I accept that they will never say much of anything positive, and so I don't take what they say with much weight. The ppl who point out both the positive and negative aspects of a piece of writing are held in a much higher regard by the ppl they're critiquing, it shows that their statements were more carefully considered than the person who only responds with a yawn. And i think the same goes for the people who just say positive things also. Simply saying "you're brilliant" means nothing, it shows just as much lack of consideration. The growth of a writer comes from knowing both the positive abilities they have and need to retain, and the negative flaws that need to be corrected.
 
Motokid said:
I really wish a few of the newer members that have signed on in the last month or so would chime in on this thread. I'd love to know why they stuck around, or what almost chased them off.
Click to expand...

I joined here as it was recommended to me, but immediately felt extremely uncomfortable as there were certain established cliques & it almost felt like if you chatted to some people here others totally alienated you. If someone new tries to take part they are frequently either immediately cut dead, or just talked over the top of as though they don't even exist. I appreciate that the heavy posters here know each other much better then the newbies, but then how will they ever get to know anyone else if they don't try? The trickiest thing of all, is making a post when you are almost certain you will be ripped to shreds for it, as I know I have been discouraged from taking part several times due to how personal attacks seem to get due to the tiniest of things.

All in all, I found it very difficult to fit in here & instead chose to venture off elsewhere & I'm only on here today because a friend of mine sent me a PM.

I appreciate this is only one, very insignificant, person's feelings, but as the question was being asked I thought it best to answer honestly.
 
It seems this thread has moved away from critique of material to this particular board's dynamics, and as I haven't been around very long, I can't offer as (potentially) insightful commentary as I tried to do above, form the position of an outsider. I can, however, describe what I do see, outside, looking in (to borrow a phrase from the Gin Blossoms).

Frankly, what I have seen is similar to what Sar describes. Newer people get railroaded over by the heavy posters. Now, obviously, heavy posters post a lot by definition, but while there might be lipservice to listening to new members, I haven't seen a lot of people doing it. For example, in this thread, responses to posts by the newbies have been very small and/or trite, along the lines of

"Good point there!"

which is about a fruitful to discussion as criticism like this

"I like it!"

is to a budding writer. The one counterexample I see well is Motokid responding only to a newbie who agreed with him; that didn't go very far toward advancing discussion either. Mostly, people respond by saying their piece again.

Obviously, there are "heavy posters" who have only recently reached that status within a few months of joining. That seems to be grossly NOT the norm. Rather, pages and pages of one or two line, personal posts back and forth between people who know each other well dominate this subforum.

All in all, I don't find it especially welcoming. If I devoted all my spare time to this forum, perhaps I'd find the people that I wanted to communicate with, and even be a heavy poster myself. But if that means getting embroiled in internicene squabbles (see above, in this thread) and having to post over and over again to top the one-liners of people who, once they've given their opinion, either restate it or drift woefully off-topic, I'm gonna have to say that it's not worth it.

As for self-policing, sounds like a great idea. Until the first person takes it personal and responds in kind. As has already happened above.
 
Acolyte said:
It seems this thread has moved away from critique of material to this particular board's dynamics
Click to expand...

actually if you reread the first post, the thread is about that dinamic, true the it refered to the writers section, but was about behaviour, not about criticism.

Sar said:
All in all, I found it very difficult to fit in here & instead chose to venture off elsewhere & I'm only on here today because a friend of mine sent me a PM.

I appreciate this is only one, very insignificant, person's feelings, but as the question was being asked I thought it best to answer honestly.
Click to expand...

Sar i been away for a time and im not loged 24/7 as i used to, but i have notice you and think you have interesting things to say, and was getting use to see your posts during my sporadic visits, its a shame you have decided to leave, will miss you.
 
Ok, the heavy posters are taking a beating here, and I consider myself to be one of them (duh!), so I'll step up.

If this is incoherent, I'm sorry - I just worked a nightshift, my bed is looming, and my eyelids are rapidly losing their epic battle against gravity.

I think that blaming this on the heavy posters is a bit harsh. I know, for a fact, that three out of the top four heavy posters make a point out of being nice and welcoming to new members (and by this I mean a hell of a lot more than saying 'Hi, welcome!' in the introduction thread of that specific member).

Ok.

I do agree, however, that the General Chat area is chaotic, to say the least - but I want to stress that this is the entire point of the GC; this is where all the spamming happens, where all the harmless fun is had, so that the actual bookrelated threads in other subfora, the core around which this bookcentered community revolves, can stay on track, without being sidetracked by mindless banter. I understand that this can seem daunting, though. Especially the one-on-one bits, as Acolyte described.

....

****, fell asleep there.

My last point, before I slip into my coma. The people who registered here between, say, three months ago and today, have come here at exactly the wrong time. Things have been pretty tense around here, due to circumstances better left alone right now. But it's clearing up, it really is. Fun is seeping back into the boards, on a day to day basis. Please do stick around, maybe you'l experience some of it.

Now, to get specific. Sar, that avatar simply has to stay! Period! You hear!? I don't care if you post in Swahili from now on, as long as you post.

Acolyte, your thoughts are always welcome - you seem like an intelligent enough feller, so do stick around. I told you as much in private a while ago, and I tell you again now. Give us a chance, the both of you, we're a pretty good bunch, here. A microcosm of clashing personalities - what's not to like?!

Good, I'm off - if I'm not back by this time tomorrow, send a rescue party. Emphasis on 'party'.

Cheers
 
I would like to add something too :)

I have heard it come up quite frequently about how being a newbie you intimidated by in jokes or left out... I don't really think this is a valid thing to say.

The forum is just like anywhere else. Start a new job? It's full of people you don't know that joke and laugh and talk about stuff you that goes over you head. Join a new club? Same thing. Start a new school? Same thing. Why is the forum going to be any different? Mostly the people that complain of feeling left out are the people that don't post much ( no disrespect :) )

Time and joining in will change things. Just like a new job or a new school or new club it takes time to get to know everybody and for them to get to know you. I don't think there is anything odd or unfriendly in this. It's just the way life works :)

It just takes awhile! Be patient! Get to know us! Join in! We are a friendly bunch really. Well, most of us :D
 
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